upgrading the update/upgrade mechanism of whonix templates

in the documentation page:- How-to: Install the Stable Version of Qubes-Whonix ™ 16

number 7 , it is really confusing for the new users + if someone mess up the GW-appvm it will be also a mess up on the templates update/upgrade and i think this is where we expect the insecurity of this idea/design.

i really want to put a new upgrading idea which i hope it can be implemented in whonix-qubes.

like for example:-

if whonix WS/GW going to be installed inside Qubes image by default , how about that we make the GW-appvm also installed by default (like fedora template and the its appvms from it like banking,personal …etc)?

because the real question is which one is better or isnt making an GW-appvm only for the sake of updating/upgrading the templates better than the documentary one?

@Patrick what do u think?

That’s already planned/done for later Qubes versions. Should be done in R3.1 that I am currently trying to install. If the user chooses to install Whonix, the templates whonix-gw and whonix-ws will be installed as well as a whonix-gw based ProxyVM sys-whonix and a whonix-ws based AppVM anon-whonix will be created. And all will be preconfigured.


  • yeah but im saying that having this design:-


Whonix-GW-appVM (also for updating/upgrading the templates)

= is not good design

  • im thinking in


Whonix-upgrading/updating (based on GW-appVM)


which is i think this is better for useability and maybe security.

TemplateVM vs AppVM vs ProxyVM naming will be less confusing in Qubes in future too. I heard that @bnvk reached some open ears about significantly improving Qubes VM Manager (QVMM) wrt usability.

uploaded the design to the upstream.

  • made new images to understand the design (which is really simple)

the current idea of Qubes-Whonix

my idea

  • so in imaginary way they r going to be: -



(i know the GW is a proxyVM not an appVM , just a mistake because of rushing)

i also emailed the qubes mailing list witha new images design = hope they will answer me.

now i knew why they didnt answered me , because my messages werent reaching to them.


i clicked on reply from my email , and my messages went to TimW email . how my comments should pop-up on the same topic instead of going to TimW ? (i gave him 2 comments after his comment in google groups but they r not in the topic)

should i put the email of qubes developers witha same name of my topic ? or doing this going to open a new thread witha same name of my previous topic?

@marmarek @Patrick kinda lost any help ? also i have sent the images with my email but they r seems to be not in the topic , how should i upload them so they can appear inside the topic ?

No direct mails!

Use “reply all” rather than “reply” and see who will be the recipients. The mailing list should be included.

oh i c , done. thnx