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Long Wiki Edits Thread

Removed mention of Tor Browser verification in SecBrowser in Windows wiki.

https://whonix.org/w/index.php?title=SecBrowser_in_Windows&diff=50632&oldid=50619

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What do you think about moving from https://www.whonix.org/wiki/SecBrowser_in_Windows to https://www.whonix.org/wiki/SecBrowser/Windows etc. for other platforms linux, etc.

That enabled breadcrumb navigation.

For example https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Tunnels/Connecting_to_a_VPN_before_Tor contains a / which results in at the very top of the page

< Tunnels

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Good idea. Went ahead and moved all SecBrowser platforms to SecBrowser/$Platform

Hope thats OK.

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Just for clarification, SecBrowser in Kicksecure would be separate from the other SecBrowser/$Platforms .

For example,

hxxxs://www.whonix.org/wiki/Kicksecure/SecBrowser

BTW,

Not sure if I already mentioned this. Its really cool to see kicksecure repo in the sources when updating Whonix.

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After what we discussed recently I"m not sure that that wasn’t a mistake to move all pages to SecBrowser/$Platform. While there are redirects and for example, the SecBrowser/Debian page title is still SecBrowser in Debian I’m thinking it would be better to revert to the way they were.

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Looks good now.

Dunno. No strong opinion. Both would be ok.

Not yet.

Not a repository. Just a package https://github.com/Whonix/kicksecure-base-files

Good. Redirects don’t hurt. Need minimal disk space. No problem.

https://www.whonix.org/wiki/SecBrowser/Debian shows title for me

SecBrowser ™ in Debian

As you probably now (but I am repeating perhaps since I am not sure I understand the point), title is defined by mediawiki markup:

{{Title|title=
SecBrowser ™ in Debian 
}}

Page name being different from page title is a feature, not a bug.

Being concise and descriptive at the same time is a contradiction. But something are very helpful for users and useful search engines.

  • URL
  • page title
  • description [1] [2]
  • introduction text
  • table of contents
  • headlines

Using the same title as page description would be a waste of available space which is available for the summary of what that page is about.

I don’t understand.

[1]

{{#seo:
|description=SecBrowser ™ is a security-hardened browser that provides better protection from exploits, thereby reducing the risk of drive-by virus infections. (Tor Browser without Tor)
|image=https://www.whonix.org/w/images/e/e0/Secbrowser3431.jpg
}}

[2] becomes in page source code:

<meta name="description" content="SecBrowser ™ is a security-hardened browser that provides better protection from exploits, thereby reducing the risk of drive-by virus infections. (..."/>

which is read by search engines and shown as description field in a search result.

Trying to say (not very clearly) the page title shows “SecBrowser
™ in Debian” not just “Debian”. Which is what we want. I guess still a little confused about what users see when they use a search engine looking for keyword(s) “SecBrowser” , “SecBrowser in Debian” etc etc. I just went ahead and used google to search and no more confusion. :slight_smile:

Mostly just wanted to be sure I was naming pages correctly.

My line of thinking, your usaually 5 steps ahead of me. So you would have already thought of doing this and decided against it for some reason. Hence, you might want me to revert the changes.

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TODO

Update https://whonix.org/wiki/Keepassxc using APT to install.

https://packages.debian.org/buster/keepassxc

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Will do that now.

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Done. That page https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Keepassxc is still a bit underdeveloped. But low priority since not many users asked about it lately.

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This user might have brought up an issue.

http://forums.dds6qkxpwdeubwucdiaord2xgbbeyds25rbsgr73tbfpqpt4a6vjwsyd.onion/t/difference-between-exe-and-ova-file/7982

When users download the Tor Browser Windows Installer on this page https://www.torproject.org/download/ there is no confusion as to what button they need to click. (there is only one button for Windows users) It does the same thing as all the other Linux, Mac, Android buttons on that page. It “Installs Tor Browser”.

What do you think about this:

Idea 1

Lets place each platform icon (Linux Windows etc) above its own FAT download button?

OR

Lets find out how to add a clickable icon for each paltform. It doesn’t matter if each button downloads the same image? We could make it look similar to https://www.torproject.org/download/

Note: the download buttons don’t have to bee flashy.

Idea 2

Format the top section like https://electrum.org/#download ? Everything on that page has its place. All platforms have separation from each other (not confusing) Nice and tidy.


Oops, never addressed the above users issue, It might be a good idea to add information to https://whonix.org/wiki/Windows_Quick_Start? Or a at least a link where they can find out more info.

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Yes, nice.

Which place to modify did you have in mind?

This is very good.

Except, I think, looks like we already have this here:

Or do you mean something else? Probably so, I guess.

This has worse usability than idea 1 so I strongly prefer idea 1.

We have two versions, the easy download page: https://www.whonix.org/download/
And the advanced download page: https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Download

The advanced download is actually not too easily found. It’s linked for people who went to the wiki and then go through the top menu or through wiki documentation.

Maybe the advanced download page is actually more exposed to novice users than I imagine?

Maybe that https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Download page should look more like Idea 2?

Or can even https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Download be made like Idea 1?

Not sure you suggested that but I do think that https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Windows_Quick_Start would be better off using a different download button. A download button different from the one used on https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Main_Page or https://www.whonix.org/wiki/VirtualBox /XFCE /CLI.

Operating system specific / branded download buttons seems really cool.

You did in initial Whonix Windows Installer Documentation but then I moved to https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Dev/Virtualization_Platform#Arguments_for_keeping_VirtualBox_Support

My thinking was, the main target audience are new novice users. Not swamping new users with too much of the history and justification. Trying to take the perspective of what a new novice user would be expecting to see.

A user who is asking Difference between EXE and OVA file is probably an existing user, (more) advanced user or a user who reads more than the average user.

Moved rationale to https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Dev/Whonix-Windows-Installer#Rationale for now.

Yes, I guess at least that type of user.
Worth having a dedicated wiki page of Whonix-Windows-Installer?
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Dev/Whonix-Windows-Installer sufficient (although /Dev centric)?
Or would also https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Whonix-Windows-Installer be useful?
Maybe add the text of the rationale or link to the rationale somewhere lower https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Windows_Quick_Start?
Reason for not being on top: new novice users don’t need to get the history, and no need to swamp them, and those who are reading a lot will end up there anyhow.

Beefed up these pages:

(preview image and description somehow not not updated by the forum software)

When i browser to the download page i expect to see a download button (or something similar) for each platform. Kinda like here https://www.whonix.org/download/. The first thing I see is the top line with all the different platforms that are supported (but they are kinda all scrunched together). It takes me a few seconds to figure out what I’m supposed to do. Click one of the icons? Or hit the download button that works for All platforms?

Since users are likely expecting a download button for their particular platform, lets give them one? How about we separate each icon and place a button (fat in relation to the text) underneath each one. Users immediately know what they need to… hit the download button underneath their platform. (Minimal information is required.) On the other hand, very nice looking bike sheds have been build on this very topic the the past. (sorry for the horrible screenshot. Just imagine a download button under each icon. Didn’t put much effort into it.)

Screenshot_2019-08-31_12-59-19

Was thinking of consistency with other wiki pages and other projects.

Agreed.

Simple is best imo. Users should not have to put much thought into what users need to do when downloading an image. Give them only the information they need. Platform and button.

Yes. Maybe a simple download button:

(Download)

Not sure what else to do. could always wait to see if anyone opens up a support request about confusion? Then take it from there?

We could use that everywhere.

agreed. But might be a good idea for then to have a link in case they do want to see more info. I might be getting a little carried away with this :slight_smile:

Was kinda surprised to see that. More experienced users would also like to use the installer as well. (they are still windows users)

OK

I agree.

https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Dev/Whonix-Windows-Installer is good for advanced users. Lets add a link to rational page/section somewhere on the https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Windows_Quick_Start page for anyone that would like more detailed info/history.

I think we have to keep in mind whonix.org wiki is formatted a little differently than other projects so I don’t think we need to try to copy everyone. We’ll end up spending all our time on this. Having said that, Tor project does have their .org very well thought out. Would be good to mimic their less is more philosophy.

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I see. Makes sense.

(The idea of the many icons was to have pictograms. Something which is easier processed by the mind than text. And less likely overlooked.)

Sounds good!

To avoid law of triviality / bikeshed we can do something similar as my idea Fork XFCE Theming of another Debian based Linux distribution.

An Open Source website of a project that figured that out already could be forked for whatever we needed, whenever sensible and doable such as re-using their icons, theme, and whatnot (of course needless to say not to confuse one project for another).

torproject.org website might be Open Source. It was last time I checked if I remember right. Needs research or communication about current state.

Ok.

Then existing contents of https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Download could be moved elsewhere perhaps some /Dev page.

Yes.

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Most of these points could be added to the wiki.

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I agree with the majority of these points except where it says to setup your own VPN. That just gives you a fingerprint identifying you as it’s only you using that VPN.

It would be good to also add this to the wiki https://matt.traudt.xyz/posts/vpn-tor-not-mRikAa4h.html

It’s a blog post by a Tor developer explaining why a VPN likely doesn’t help with Tor in the majority of threat models.

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@HulaHoop in KVM Download:

http://www.dds6qkxpwdeubwucdiaord2xgbbeyds25rbsgr73tbfpqpt4a6vjwsyd.onion/wiki/KVM#Download_Whonix_.E2.84.A2

signatures URLs are :

https://sourceforge.net/projects/whonix-kvm/files/libvirt/15.0.0.4.9/Whonix-XFCE-15.0.0.4.9.libvirt.xz.asc/download

https://sourceforge.net/projects/whonix-kvm/files/libvirt/15.0.0.4.9/Whonix-XFCE-15.0.0.4.9.sha512sums/download

https://sourceforge.net/projects/whonix-kvm/files/libvirt/15.0.0.4.9/Whonix-XFCE-15.0.0.4.9.sha512sums.asc/download

when downloading these files from these URLs it will show “download” file name which is unusable name to be read from terminal for verification.

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Hm. I’ve just tried it now and I’m seeing the full proper file names not download. Note that auto downloading doesn’t work for me but that’s what I get when clicking the direct link.

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