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"Document Installation and Setup of the New Security-focused Hardened Debian Linux Distribution" selected by Whonix for Season of Docs 2019

About can clarify the relationship with Whonix while Overview describes what ithe main idea is that makes it an independent project?

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Makes sense. Point out Kicksecure = security focuses. Whonix = anonymity . Would be good to state bluntly they are separate projects. Link to a move detailed Overview of Kicksecure.

Starting to fall into place now. :wink:

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I don’t disagree but one more point on clarification.
By presentation I meant formatting, theme, style.
For example https://www.whonix.org/ has a better presentation than any Whonix wiki page.
I.e. the contents of the Tails homepage is not bad but the visual impression is not that of lets say https://www.torproject.org/, https://elementary.io/ (for lack of better examples found quickly).

Btw not just wiki’s. Better to compare with homepages.
The reason we are using a wiki (with some skin) and not a homepage is lack of resources.

Very good! Some nits…

Yes.

Dunno what advance means here.

General Note: as a non-native English speaker my judgements on English language interpretation may be wrong sometimes.

Btw did you see https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page? Could you please have a glimpse at a few articles there? Just for the general style. Perhaps introductions texts could be inspired by such language (since we have non-native English speaking users with only basic levels of English language).

Not sure in the wild vs off the shelf vs targeted malware (using viruses even though less correct technically it is better understood by non-computer, non-native speakers) is important enough to mention there.

Btw we have:
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Malware#Targeted_Malware_vs_Off-The-Shelf_Malware

Seems unfit there.

Not sure development philosophy has a place there?

OS: abbreviation, not well known
host OS: rewrite to Windows, MacOS, Linux since not well known term

Freedom Software

Yes.

This is not great but may be required as long as hosted on whonix.org.

Yes.

Good point.

It’s perhaps for different levels of complexity / attention / difficultly.

For example while looking at https://www.crowdstrike.com I just saw they briefly describe their products. While not Open Source (probably, I didn’t find) I didn’t get the slightest technical details how they could implement that. The homepage (https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Kicksecure until moved to kicksecure.com, if we get there one day) would be “the buzz”.

About page would be more technical getting. And linking to further pages from there could get to the actual meat so to speak.

It’s important that the homepage explains the product as concise and clear as possible. It’s to reduce bounce rates for people who think they found something irrelevant but they actually found something suitable for what they were looking for. It should motivate to take action, i.e. download.

I guess that’s the general philosophy nowadays and also what users expect since all popular projects do that?

Yes. Perhaps a small wiki table?

OK

Kicksecure.com would be ideal instead of a “skin” to separate the projects. But I think we can make it work well.

Mostly a habit to use words to “jazz” up content a little bit i guess. Wrong use of “Advanced”. Or wrong placement.

Was looking at https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Very_good_articles . There is only 34 Very Good articles in wikipedia. Interesting how those pages are structured. Each paragraph is very specific. Every sentence conveys a short, very informative fact about the subject. With each sentence building upon the previous sentences.

Didn’t find any “IT good pages”. The closest thing would be the “Evolution very good page” https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution. Its a subject somewhat similar in complexity but laid out and structured in a simple way.

A curiosity. I wonder what people would think if we started writing Whonix wiki like that. Remove most adjectives, unneeded language.

Could Kicksecure be written like that. It seems from looking at other project with less resources a lot of effort is spent trying to set the project apart from others using big flashy Catch phrases. Kinda like people expect to see that sort of thing.

Not sure beginners can appreciate “in the wild”

Would be better.

yes.

Mostly opinion based. Doesn’t belong.

OK

Ok.

Looking at https://www.torproject.org/ you get all the info you need right off the bat. But have the option of scrolling down for more info.

Yes. Needed to avoid confusion.

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https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Theme and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Chameleon is now installed, see https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Special:Version.

I was hoping it could be used on a by-page base by simply using

usetheme=chameleon

on any wiki page. But I could not make that work.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Theme links to example link http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page?useskin=monobook&usetheme=dark

But using it that might be incompatible with what we want to do.

Also does not look great

https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Main_Page?useskin=chameleon&usetheme=chameleon

dunno if this is a skin or extension issue. Looks like a skin issue. As per
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering
users can choose a skin in their mediawiki account settings. Using that preview the skin does not look great.

Could be an issue with https://www.whonix.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css

Edit:

https://www.whonix.org/w/index.php?title=Kicksecure&useskin=chameleon

looks a bit better.

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I like that. There is a noticeable differenece. Most of the book like structures I’ve seen have more information added to the header . Like the beginning to a new chapter in a book. Would look even better.

For example,

Before:

Vision

After:

Vision "more descriptive title"

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Btw the vision on https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Kicksecure should be moved elsewhere anyhow. All contents of https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Kicksecure are temporary and can be bodily changed. https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Kicksecure a quick and dirty effort to the the basic idea published only.

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Esentially. Since there is no https://Kicksecure.com This page will be the landing page (home page) Very basic. Get important info across to limit bounce rates.

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For https://whonix.org/wiki/Kicksecure/About Should we mention that Kicksecure is based on Debian (just very basic) or something like Based on Hardened Debian with additonal enhancments to further reduce the likelihood of a temporary or persistent compromise.

Obviously there will be something like https://whonix.org/wiki/Kicksecure/System_Hardening_Checklist

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Also what will the first Kicksecure release be called. Alpha, 1 or 1.0 ?

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Will probably be build together with new Whonix releases and share the same version number.

Kicksecure/About page is completed. However, some contenct needs to be added as it come available such as the “Whats next” sub heading.

https://whonix.org/w/index.php?title=Kicksecure/About&oldid=50887&diff=cur

Have to change the version number in Kicksecure/About page.

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Should the Kicksecure landing page based on html like https://whonix.org or a regular wiki page?

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Wiki. Don’t have website yet.

Is it possible to use {{project_name}} for both Whonix and Kicksecure. Meaning some sort of switch.

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No, not that I know. But we could/should create a template {{kicksecure}}.

Done.

https://whonix.org/wiki/Template:Kicksecure

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Wiki templates support variables. But if we have to define the variable form the page that references the template we gain nothing.

Maybe mediawiki supports conditional variables so it would react based on the page being hosted in the Kicksecure/ hierarchy or something.

What do we do with pages such as

Such pages are not Whonix specific. At best “Kicksecure based” specific. Maybe Kicksecure based is a good concept to introduce to Whonix users?

  • Probably not worth it to turn all Whonix wiki pages into wiki templates. A lot work for just changing the project name.
  • Probably not worth re-inventing all pages and re-adding to the Kicksecure/ hierarchy.
  • So perhaps best to make such pages generic` Ii.e. unspecific to Whonix and valid for Kicksecure too. Perhaps avoiding saying either project name or if saying the project name list them both?

Yes. Good idea to start now. When answering forum questions as well. Its way to much work to start making changes all throughout Whonix.org until there are more regular contributors.

It might be a good idea to either create a page with a more detailed table about the differences between Whonix and Kicksecure. Or maybe create a template we could add to different Whonix, Kicksecure pages. Both would a good idea.


When looking for Kicksecure using a search engine most people will see Kicksecure is hosted on Whonix.org. Might cause a little confusion between the two projects. Wonder if it might be a good idea to add a link to Kicksecure/About on each Kickecure/$somepage for the time being?

I find the first paragraph a little confusing. Will have to rewrite that. → https://whonix.org/wiki/Kicksecure/About#Is_Kicksecure_an_Anonymity_Distribution_Like_Whonix.3F


Looking for ideas for the Kicksecure home page, not sure we should try to reinvent the wheel for the “JAZ”. Most project are using something like “Security Focused” or “Secure Browsing”. But for content lower on the page it might be a good idea to leverage whats been in the media over the last few years about breaches in major free email providers. (just some ideas)

  • People can create unbreakable passwords for each account they have.
  • Possible to clean malware viruses from their system without expensive anti-virus software (VirtualBox snapshots, Qubes DispososableVMs etc)
  • Hardened to prevent compromise.
  • Maybe add a link to a page such as this?: https://www.dailydot.com/debug/most-secure-operating-system/
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