Which e-mail provider is more adviseable, protonmail or lavabit reloaded?

Why is something not anonymous if you have to pay for it ?
You could use offline bought bitcoin…
I would rather trust a company with a service i pay for to do what they promise then some free service to keep their word.
Obviously a Setup like I2P Bote or Bitmessage would be best but that’s another Topic.

You will be part of a very small anonymity set. Paying for anything already keeps many potential users away and the number of them smart enough to do it anonymously is less.

I would not trust anything that is not technically secure. Lavabit was liable last time because their encryption system was still under the server admin’s control. He behaved honestly but how many people are willing to risk their business and freedom to do that?

Also DIME is a good start but nothing beats timing and traffic obfuscation at the network layer.

That’s true but this could be said to a lot of privacy related stuff, i wouldn’t want to lower my security standard just because some people are to “stupid”/unwilling to do the same…

Sure i wouldn’t trust a non technical secure service either.
I think the Incentive to behave honestly and not screw up (like Riseup) is much higher if you’re getting paid from your Users , then some freebee service like Riseup who just lies and bows down once their own Freedom is threatened.

Thats why I2P Bote exists :wink:



since we already noted that these services are not trustable just use them for registration then adding lavabit as well will not be a problem.

Edit:- lavabit doesnt contain “free signup” , all their services user need to pay in order to have an account, so its not recommended to put it as suggestion for the new users who want to have an email in order to communicate with us.

Too long for me to read and verify all by myself but perhaps it has some pointers for those interested in reviewing protonmail.


relativity new (?) competitor:


Well both points are true. Protonmail did in fact announce CRV stake ownership. CRV is an investment company and not a charity. No doubt they gave them 2 million dollars for something in return.

Yes Protonmail’s security claims are snake oil. Their barriers for anonymous registration and letting users make use of their own keys are problems I’ve confronted them about it on twitter. The situation has not changed since. This blog post confirms that no E2E encryption is available for protonmail and that their JS implementation can be circumvented at will, which is true:


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Someone has to test that they allow IMAP access over Tor. I don’t want to use their super duper encryption nor sign-in via their JS required web interface that loads Google fonts.

@TNT_BOM_BOM would you be up for this?

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  • They are using cloudflare captcha which prevent Tor users to solve it (even if they did). But sometimes it can bypass you (rarely after many trails).
  • Email registration will stuck and not let you passing this page:

My opinion:

Not recommended for anonymity usage. Maybe secure but nothing special with it.


Hey I’m here from CTemplar.

We will soon post an article about how to setup a very secure email environment directing users to Whonix’s email page. We are not affiliates however it is best to be honest with people and direct people them to the content they need.

Can you explain how cloudflare prevents Tor users from soling the recaptcha?

Currently we are not that unique. All we offer users is sincerity and hard work. We respectfully ask the community about what we can improve on. Then please allow us the opportunity to work hard to prove that we are sincere.



We dont support IMAP or POP. We will probably add those in January. I mean no disrespect to you, we are a small team and have other tasks that are a priority right now.



Haven’t heard that much from the Tor/Whonix community on the last one (cloudflare-ends-captcha-challenges) so i guess it will be a - wait and see how it goes. Since Tor Project tweaked their binaries for this (or so it states??) I would imagine they will be commenting on this eventually. If they haven’t already?

BTW, Thanks for opening dialog! :+1:


Thanks for chiming in.

Can you please strip out any Google scripts and allow non-JS to signup? These are two areas that would put you on par with the competition.


Google Scripts: We have google scripts at signup and login to prevent account abuse. We are looking for any other solution for this and we will happily replace it with something equal. The alternatives are cell phone confirmation which is anti-privacy, email confirmation which is silly for an email site, and asking for a donation for a free account which is evil. So to prevent account abuse we are stuck with using google recaptcha in those two places. It’s not ideal but we are searching for alternatives and we’ll make the correction as soon as we can. I would sincerely like to know peoples thoughts on this.

Non-JS to signup: I have always felt like using javascripts is like putting 3 ounces of sh*t in a birthday cake. It doesn’t matter if it’s a small amount, no one will eat it:) Lame joke. Our front end is built using Angular (Javascripts) because it is what does the encryption and decryption. We have added checksums so users can confirm that the code they receive is the same code that we show in github. Right now other E2E email services offer a “You can trust us not to screw you” security model. They show code in github but serve it from a private responsitiy and ask you to trust them that it wont have malcious code. We are trying to take a step in the right direction with checksums but we realize it’s a small step. Regardless we are working on a way to use our email without javascripts but it will take some time.

Whats more serious than Google Scripts are the Paypal and Stripe scripts. They are able to see into users inbox’s more than google scripts. We’re going to write a post about that in the near future. If users use the free account or pay with bitcoin/monero they can protect themselves from evil paypal/stripe scripts.


I’m not ignoring you I just have no idea how to respond. I’m going to study this and get back to you. Thank you for these links.


We have removed both those posts about Protonmail. Although we felt they were completely true, we are not the right group to show their weaknesses.

If not you, then who is the right group? If the post is accurate/true why not leave it up?


Github is not ideal place to compare your code to. very bad to trust github to save your real code. you should either switch to gitlab or host your own git version with e.g: Gogs.

Thats horrible, needs triage for sure. also it might help check also projects like liberapay.

why would you remove that? and if you cant put it again , please post it here.

@CTemplar i checked again ctemplar , you guys made great and brilliant improvements to your infrastructure from removing cloudflare , removing the need to JS, payment with Monero and v3 Onion Hidden services, All TLS and DNS security features implemented and hardened… just great!

Is there any notices to add?

  • Major feature needed is to allow users to use their own email clients (allowing pop/imap/smtp) and their own encryption (gpg/pgp), i asked the support they told me it maybe applied in the future.

  • Minor stuff to check out:

Missing Headers (new)
Permissions-Policy: Permissions Policy is a new header that allows a site to control which features and APIs can be used in the browser.

Content-Security-Policy: This policy contains ‘unsafe-inline’ which is dangerous in the script-src directive. This policy contains ‘unsafe-eval’ which is dangerous in the script-src directive. This policy contains ‘unsafe-inline’ which is dangerous in the style-src directive.

  • Optional/Trivial stuff to checkout:


If you press on warnings and notices you will find: (if this single route go offline all nameservers gonna be offline)

0 CONNECTIVITY WARNING All nameservers in the delegation have IPv4 addresses in the same AS (13335).
1 CONNECTIVITY WARNING All nameservers in the delegation have IPv6 addresses in the same AS (13335).
2 CONNECTIVITY WARNING All nameservers in the delegation are in the same AS (13335).

0 ZONE NOTICE SOA ‘refresh’ value (10000) is less than the recommended minimum (14400).
1 ZONE NOTICE SOA ‘retry’ value (2400) is less than the recommended minimum (3600).

Cant wait to see your email added on my client!!

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