NSA PsyOP. (Limited Hangout)
Um no. It seems no matter how much evidence some people see, they insist on pulling their tinfoil hats tightly around their heads.
You mean telling us what we already know (and nothing new of any value) in a huge publicity stunt?
What proof do you have besides blowing smoking from your ass?
Read the wikipedia article if you don’t understand the definitions of the words I’m using.
Who would have gained what from a deliberate limited hangout?
That’s a good question, but not having that answer in no way reduces the likelihood of a Limited Hangout.
But, we can ask ourselves, who seems to benefit from the United States public being made aware of living in a Surveillance State?
Does the Surveillance State itself benefit? I would argue, yes.
What do they gain?
The average American responds to these “leaks” with “Well, I had nothing to hide anyway, so I’m not going to start putting any effort into combating this situation.”
That is a great improvement from “I don’t need to combat government surveillance because draconian State Surveillance is a conspiracy theory”
It’s one thing to control a people who don’t believe that a conspiracy is afoot, it’s a whole new level of control when the controlled are willing participants.
Best case scenario, it is a controlled partial leak, as some sort of appeasement to some greater power of good. But far from full disclosure.
When someone starts naming names of the top .01%, they will have my undivided attention. That will be when we start hearing about the “key and damaging facts” about things like suppressed technologies, and cures for diseases, human/sex trafficking, and the oligarchy’s penchant for pedophilia.
By Snowden’s own admission, they have access to the entire planet’s secrets. So, where’s all the good stuff? Where’s the information that is actually empowering?
Edit: It should also be pointed out that assuming a Limited Hangout is safer than assuming full disclosure. Assuming we know nothing leaves us open to learn, as opposed to assuming we know everything already.
Question, why didn’t Snowden tell us about ODIN (Intel Backdoor)?
Proving negatives is a logical fallacy you know
One of the big things about Snowden’s revelations was how the surveillance was done and how to mitigate it. People knew about mass surveillance since forever. Also speaking for 330 million people as being happy with surveillance is a little questionable on your part. People not happy with it simply use Tor.
- Snowden is not the one deciding what is published.
- He probably never read everything he disclosed to the press because of sheer volume.
- The (published) secrets he had access to were relevant to NSA’s technical capabilties mainly and some raw intercepts but that was not the main thing.
Lets say the top 0.1% own NSA, why would they leave that data lying around and stored somewhere for someone to leak? Its logical they would never collect it in the first place. From the docs we know there are core secrets. Secrets too sensitive to be written down.
Also not finding the data you would have liked to know, does not reduce the authenticity, importance or impact of what we do know.
We know that not everything in the docs he handed over was disclosed. The Intercept published a small number - this is widely known.
Intel ME/AMT tech is hardly new or a secret. The concept of out of band management tech is decades old.
in life, changes mostly attributes while basics steady - as if see poverty might guess totalitarism -
so if someone believe he already live in heaven / democracy etc long ago, then he might guess spoke about gov/ppl relation clearance is true and bla blas - otherwise, turn around and seeing what happens beyond the scope of movie/tv,
then you not be surprised, only if had character of being just amazed lol that sure every of it organisations make exploits, dirty job etc - whenever they can and get profit,
so such a sensations people lying their life such as snowden, I am not understand it while there are more bruttiest and opened ways to punish a rat lol - so there are huge ton of such a dirty secrets, and fact that snowden not disclosed current one, talk about nothin, yet…
Thank you for your intelligent response @HulaHoop.
You’re the technical expert, so correct me if I am wrong here, but using Signal Private Messenger doesn’t do much good if the CPU is backdoored, correct?
Essentially all crypto is broken as long as the majority of endpoints have CPUs providing non-random numbers, right? (Please forgive my ignorance)
If this is true, then Snowden can offer all the crypt advice he pleases. Everyone is pwned regardless.
Furthermore, let’s just hypothesize that the government has quantum computing beyond our wildest imaginations, provided by extraterrestrial intelligence, then perhaps a backdoor is not even necessary.
Snowden is all over the media, and hosting live podcasts. He has plenty of opportunity to release information on his own.
I bet you he (would have) looked for the information that would be most interesting to any conscious being.
He made sure everyone knew that their nude pictures were being stolen and looked at.
If I had the power to discover almost any secret in this country, nude photos would only be about 4th on my list.
So, he heard about the nudes, but never heard anything about free energy? No EBEs? Who was Valiant Thor?
He officially said “I saw nothing on Aliens”, implying that with all his knowledge and ability and capability, there was just no alien information to be heard of. No child abductions? Nothing beyond nude pics. Smells like a Limited Hangout to me.
Bottom line, the message was “We have access to EVERYTHING, even the most intimate media on all your devices, so when I say there’s no alien info, you know you can believe me.”
People with much less capability have been able to gather a lot of data about who is running the NSA. Dr. Greer has gathered infinitely more information with an infinitesimal amount of resources.
Yes, I agree that Snowden will not be able to walk out with thumbdrives of data detailing the top of the pyramid. But if what he says is true, then he should have enough info to name names. He would have more important information about the power structure. IMHO
As you yourself said, the information was decades old.
Yes, the tech is old, but Odin was the codename, specifically for Intel. If snowden has all this info, why wasn’t Odin mentioned? That’s the nechnology that could potentially negate the value of all his other advice.
Highly doubt it’s a psyop, because count all the adverse impacts from an IC perspective:
- woke the masses up;
- pushed a ton of people to encryption, Tor, and other privacy tools;
- accelerated https take-up broadly across the net (see recent stats that back that up);
- led tech companies to do major security audits on their products and tighten up protocols, servers etc;
- led many to withdraw from sending personal / corporate / other info across networks unless it was strictly necessary (putting some info out of reach of IC for good);
- led adversaries to adopt IC-resistant methods e.g. witness Russians now using typewriters of old;
- led many to open source projects instead of back-doored proprietary crap;
- led to outrage by many across the world re: extent of overreach by spooks;
- led to data harbor laws in EU and elsewhere;
- led to multiple court battles re: illegal actions in clear breach of standing laws;
- has energized advocate groups everywhere to push back strongly;
- has resulted in contempt for spooks in general since they made finding bad guys not a needle in a haystack, but finding a needle in a stack of needles;
- led to distrust of government actions / government agencies (can never be regained)
- etc (I could do this all day)
Basically they gave themselves a massive black eye. So, if this is psy ops, the IC community is frankly retarded.
Much more likely this is sloppy IC security, which lead them to be royally fisted by an insider.
Evidence to support this claim? Average Joe American doesn’t care about Snowden or goverment surveillance. At least not in my experience.
The only people who care about his were already awake, for the most part.
The only people who are flocking to tor, are the people who were already privacy advocates and/or enemies of the State.
I don’t know very many people, personally, IRL, that concern themselves with privacy at all.
Look at how many Americans are still on Facebook. They still use Windows. They still use iPhones.
In my experience, the majority are still completely apathetic.
I am sure from your perspective, being a “tor junkie”, it must seem like everyone is on Tor now.
But if they have hardware backdoors to CPUs, or technology that we are unaware of, all the mitigation techniques that you say are being implemented could all be moot.
The IC controls the media, and the media has made Snowden into a global icon. I am not sure why everyone overlooks this fact.
Anyone who could potentially “royally fist” the IC, would have been disappeared soon after the thought occurred to them.
If Snowden was really leaking secrets that the NSA didn’t want leaked, he would have been on a plane that disappeared, or crashed. Or he would have committed suicide with 2 shots to the back of the head.
To believe that he’s really leaking sensitive info, and then hosting live podcasts and doing all these TV interviews. . . well, that’s beyond the limitations of my imagination.
I used to argue that Snowden couldn’t be a Limited Hangout because of all the damage he’s done. But then I realized that the damage done was only in my head, my own hopes and dreams. No real damage has been done, all these years later.
The Main Stream Media reaction should tell you all you need to know. How does the MSM treat Aaron Schwartz? Michael Hastings? Julian Assange? Phil Schneider??
They are either treated with silence, ridicule, or direct opposition.
The MSM never even bothered to deny anything Snowden said. Never tried to discredit him. There was no Ron Paulesque media blackout. There was no assassination. There were no accusations of rape, or any other character assassinations. He has been treated like a hero by the left, and a traitor by the right. But everything he says is treated as gospel.
Bottom line: The Thought Police are backing Snowden. So I’m resisting.
Laughable and straight out of the government-speak handbook.
You need to get out more.
Average Joe American also thinks teachers should be given handguns to prevent gun violence. So Joe American is not representative of the thoughtful crowd, since they probably also wear MAGA caps and wave the American flag at Trump rallies.
Statistics back up large increases in Tor users and other encrypted tools. Don’t forget you’re posting on a Whonix forum, presumably using Whonix (but I’m doubting that more and more).
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Hardware backdoors are likely in place, yes. But it’s also a targeted measure, unlike the passive surveillance tools exposed by Snowden that did enormous damage to the IC, since they can be resisted.
Tell that to the Pentagon papers leaker who is still breathing at the ripe old age of 80 odd.
Typical omnipotent spook fallacy. If they were all seeing and all knowing, their malware toolkit wouldn’t have just been leaked last year. They are clearly sloppy.
Tell that to the non-US IC agencies who have lapped up every disclosure and amended their procedures accordingly based on confirmation of US abilities and methods.
The mainstream media are chumps who parrot the government line like the good lapdogs they are. You know that right?
That’s why the Internet exists, to find information that isn’t MSM tripe. Like wikileaks.org - a beautiful thing exposing numerous US war crimes and more.
By chumps who think the New York Times is “independent media” and that they’re living in a “democracy”.
More likely the paid thought police have infiltrated the forums, and spew a “SteadySupply” of propaganda.
You’re funny. You hit on (and parroted) all the MSM talking points.
Hopefully you are not an american, and are only basing your opinions on what you gather from the MSM.
Literally everything you say sounds like WaPo copy pasta.
Typical American is MAGA hat wearing Gun Advocate
This is where you exposed too much of your ignorance and agenda. Trump has lowest approval rating of all time. Typical american is a neo-liberal zionist automaton. We have PsyOps every week in this country, telling us that homegrown terorists are shooting up all the schools. Yet there wasn’t a single drop of blood spilled at Sandy-Hook. But that doesn’t stop the shills from screaming about how we need more gun control. (Wouldn’t they LOVE to disarm the masses)
Trump’s relationship with the fake news (that you love to parrot) should tell you everything you need to know. But that would require reading between the lines rather than blindly following them.
Literally everything you believe, is what is being said in NYT, WaPo, CNN, etc etc
Not a single original thought.
Funny coming from the MSM parrot. I hope you collected a fair amount of shekels for this thread.
Don’t bother responding. If I need any more of your opinions I’ll pick up the sunday paper.
Enjoy your vaccines and fluoride. Shalom!
I think the main lesson here is don’t get high off your own supply of… bullshit. Badum-tish
For transparency reasons:
SteadySupplies has been deleted by me for legal reasons. Because of a post outside of this thread.
I am comfortable leaving all opinions raised in this thread as is. The volume and controversy was little enough.
In my opinion, the problem with conspiracy theorists is that they tend to see the adversary as an omnipotent entity. There is always some kind of hidden explanation when they fail. In fact they never fail, it’s always part of a bigger plan.
Apart from the obvious logical fallacy, this mindset overlooks the human factor. Even well-established institutions with unlimited resources are made of humans. They are not almighty gods. Human failure is something to be accounted for in a lot of scenarios. Then when they shit happens they do damage control, the best they can.
Any person who has been faced with administration, in any country in the world, knows how lazy and inefficient public servants can be. They don’t talk to each other. They often don’t work well, can be corrupt, paid for, etc. Then you always have these services wars, polices wars, etc. They whithold critical information from each other, they fight each other. At the end of the day, there is always some kind of human failure.
compound this with the fact that resources are finite and such public servants are driven by the political will of the head of their org. it goes top down. it’s why, for example, you see particularized emphasis on breaking tor for particular types of users/use cases (pedophiles, for example) rather than mass round ups of individual tor users engaged in more banal and common place offenses (piracy).
decloaking of tor users requires human labor hours which are finite. if successful decloaking required nothing more than automation, stories would likely be different.