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Avoiding key strokes spying implemented in the bundles "mainboard + keyboard"


#21

Patrick seems to be busy and does not respond.
What do you think, comrades, about this way to break keyboard spying?
You buy a USB drawing pen tablet and attach it to PC. Then of course you make it accessaible in VB to the guest workstation system. I guess the hardware of the pen tablet can send to the adversaries our hand writing but cannot transfer it into printed characters! Only the software translates it into usual typed characters. If there is a software which allows to set certain typed letters to your customely invented handwritten letters. Then you may invent own letters for the alphabet and THEY won’t be able decrypt automatically at once. They will have to define your unusual letters as to their correspondence to alphabet letters. If all of us use this, THEY won’t have time to create all those decyphering things for each person. And we may change our letters correspondences settings every week or so.
The monitor spying still remains. It’s better to use old CRT monitors instead of touch screens. And old graphic cards via adapters.


#22

Although s/he has described it in a ranting, emotional manner, the “spying mechanism” described by the OP does exist
~~ On-demand “out of band” SoC (hardware) backdoors embedded into our PCs.
This hardware backdoor is present in the chipset(s) of essentially EVERY desktop or laptop PC manufactured by Intel, or by AMD, since 2011.

Here are a few relevant terms, if you care to research:
IPMI
Intel “vPro” and "AMD-V"
Intel “AMT” (Active Management Technology)
AMD “DASH”

PLEASE, DON’T “TAKE MY WORD FOR IT” ~~ READ THESE REFERENCES YOURSELF:



WHEN PRESENTED WITH THE ABOVE FACTS / REFERENCES, MOST PEOPLE TEND TO FALL INTO DENIAL.
“Oh, that’s just theoritical… that’s not actually present in MY computer…”

FYI, at the 2013 chaos communication congress, in a session titled "Persistent, Stealthy, Remote-controlled Dedicated Hardware Malware"
the presenter explained and demonstrated, live on-stage, how to hack/abuse Intel’s Active Management Technology firmware.
http://events.ccc.de/congress/2013/Fahrplan/events/5380.html

The CCC archive site hosts a video of that 55 minute presentation:
http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-5380-en-saal_2-201312291830-persistent_stealthy_remote-controlled_dedicated_hardware_malware-_patrick_stewin.html

direct link to the video:

@1guest
Before you start feeling “too content” with your proposed methodology, you might consider that even such extreme measures may not protect against BadBIOS:

ps: Here’s another topic presented at CCC which begs consideration of an additional vector through which a pristine, air-gapped, PC may become tainted:
The Exploration and Exploitation of an SD Memory Card
video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPEzLNh5YIo
article: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554

Another consideration: How confident are you in trusting that the Chinese comrades who manufactured your pen tablet have not shipped a tainted hardware driver?
(In user reviews at amazon.com, at least one person has claimed exact that – tablet shipped with a malware laden driver, detected by anti-virus util)(false positive?)


#23

Thank you for sharing these very informative sources swim. Though BadBios is proved to mainly effect windows systems thus far, correct me if I’m wrong

Also where is the source that says “hardware backdoor is present in the chipset(s) of essentially EVERY desktop or laptop PC manufactured by Intel, or by AMD, since 2011”?


#24

The post above would task me with an impossible chore – citing “where is the source that says”

Below, I’ve pasted a link on Intel’s website which is self-described (embedded meta tag? page title?) as "List of processors supporting vPro:"
Is that list comprehensive, is it kept up-to-date?
If you visit, you’ll discover that there’s no list (none, at all) on the page.

So… the Source? Me, I am the source.

I haven’t asked readers to just accept my claim at face value. Instead I’ve provided links to relevant info. To more fully understand the status quo (lack of availability, re NON-backdoored PCs) you’ll need to do additional legwork.

Rereading my week-old post, I realize that this was poorly worded:
“essentially EVERY desktop or laptop PC manufactured by Intel, or by AMD, since 2011”

Obviously neither Intel nor AMD ship (m)any complete PCs. The point is that all chipsets they’ve supplied to OEMs of destined-for-desktop/workstation PC do contain the described backdoor functionality. I discovered / realized this back in 2012, while shopping for a new laptop PC.

I also discovered that If you inquire with a sales droid, or read pre-sales pages detailing the specs for a PC (Dell, Lenovo, etc), for a given model you can seldom find definitive answer to “Is it vPro enabled?”

Please,be your own “source”.
If you can find a current offering for a PC/Laptop which is NOT vPro/DASH enabled, I would LOVE to hear about it.

Today’s status quo: nowadays it’s not just Intel + AMD
http://www.realtek.com.tw/investor/newsViewOne.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=2&PFid=5&Level=2&NewsID=213

additional related links from my bookmarks:



List of processors supporting vPro:


Intel vPro Whitepaper:

More about AMT and its features:
http://cache-www.intel.com/cd/00/00/32/09/320960_320960.pdf


#25

hmm yeah seems to me you may be right.

Have you took a look at the Novena laptop?


#26

http://libreboot.org/
Patch bios of several machines to stop keyboard spying.


#27

good article with pictures to modify x60 tablet
http://dev.libreboot.org/docs/howtos/x60_security.html


#28

The hardware can connect to the sites of adversaries through power sockets! Internet is not even needed. This technology is called ME/AMT


Several hardware specialists from different countries confirmed that.
Intel inside - “inside” is the snake capturing the globe.


#29

Our information sources confirmed that THEY can connect to inbuilt microphones via power sockets via AC chargers. Mics should be removed.


#30

One more http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot


#31

Replacing BIOS is moot.
Right atop the wikipedia page (the first link I cited, earlier) you can read:

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface

The Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI) is a set of computer interface specifications for an autonomous computer subsystem that provides management and monitoring
capabilities independently of the host system’s CPU, firmware (BIOS or UEFI) and operating system.


Intel’s vPro / AMT (Active Management Technology) is embedded within a chipset integral to the motherboard.

vPro functionality far exceeds the IPMI core featureset.
Built-in webserver, accessible/wake-able via wifi signal if ethernet is disconnected (or if PC is powered off)… it’s a REALLY slick (scary!) SoC platform.

This wikipedia page (disclaims that it’s out-of-date and non-comprehensive and) speaks to the prevalence of vPro-capable PCs and laptops:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_vPro

PCs with Intel vPro require specific chipsets. Intel vPro releases are usually identified by their AMT version.

Laptop PC requirements

Laptops with Intel vPro require:

For Intel AMT release 9.0 (4th Generation Intel Core i5 and Core i7):
    22 nm Intel 4th Generation Core i7 Mobile Processors.
    22 nm Intel 4th Generation Core i5 Mobile Processors.
    Mobile QM87 Chipsets 
For Intel AMT release 8.0 (3rd Generation Intel Core i5 and Core i7):
    32 & 45 nm Intel 3rd Generation Core i7 Mobile Processors.
    32 & 45 nm Intel 3rd Generation Core i5 Mobile Processors.
    Mobile QM77 & Q77 Chipsets 
For Intel AMT release 4.1 (Intel Centrino 2 with vPro technology):
    45 nm Intel Core2 Duo processor T, P sequence 8400, 8600, 9400, 9500, 9600; small form factor P, L, U sequence 9300 and 9400, and Quad processor Q9100.
    Mobile 45 nm Intel GS45, GM47, GM45 and PM45 Express Chipsets (Montevina with Intel Anti-Theft Technology) with 1066 FSB, 6 MB L2 cache, ICH10M-enhanced.
For Intel AMT release 4.0 (Intel Centrino 2 with vPro technology):
    45 nm Intel Core2 Duo processor T, P sequence 8400, 8600, 9400, 9500, 9600; small form factor P, L, U sequence 9300 and 9400, and Quad processor Q9100.
    Mobile 45 nm Intel GS45, GM47, GM45 and PM45 Express Chipsets (Montevina) with 1066 FSB, 6 MB L2 cache, ICH9M-enhanced.
For Intel AMT release 2.5 and 2.6 (Intel Centrino with vPro technology):
    Intel Core2 Duo processor T, L, and U 7000 sequence3, 45 nm Intel Core2 Duo processor T8000 and T9000
    Mobile Intel 965 (Broadwater-Q) Express Chipset with ICH8M-enhanced.

Note that AMT release 2.5 for wired/wireless laptops and AMT release 3.0 for desktop PCs are concurrent releases.

Desktop PC requirements

Desktop PCs with vPro (called “Intel Core 2 with vPro technology”) require:

For AMT release 5.0:
    Intel Core2 Duo processor E8600, E8500, and E8400 ; 45 nm Intel Core2 Quad processor Q9650, Q9550, and Q9400.
    Intel Q45 (Eaglelake-Q) Express Chipset with ICH10DO.
For AMT release 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2:
    Intel Core2 Duo processor E6550, E6750, and E6850; 45 nm Intel Core2 Duo processor E8500, E8400, E8300 and E8200; 45 nm Intel Core2 Quad processor Q9550, Q9450 and Q9300.
    Intel Q35 (Bearlake-Q) Express Chipset with ICH9DO.

Note that AMT release 2.5 for wired/wireless laptops and AMT release 3.0 for desktop PCs are concurrent releases.

For AMT release 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2:
    Intel Core 2 Duo processor E6300, E6400, E6600, and E6700.
    Intel Q965 (Averill) Express Chipset with ICH8DO.</blockquote>

#32

@gh0st

Novena’s open hardware may be a fine alternative, but doesn’t fit the discussion topic in this thread.


#33

[quote=“swim, post:24, topic:380”]Please,be your own “source”.
If you can find a current offering for a PC/Laptop which is NOT vPro/DASH enabled, I would LOVE to hear about it.[/quote]

…was simply responding to this


#34

Ok, understood.
Thanks, Novena is a great example of an alternative.


#35

More opensource hardware



#36

Intel AMT

Just sharing that link related to Intel AMT. I know very little about it. Looks interesting.

http://me.bios.io
(w)


#37

Adding keywords.

Intel® Management-Engine (Intel® ME)

Intel AMT (Active Management Technology)

@1guest: What do you think about changing the thread title?


#38

1 possible way to get protected from key loggin techniques is to use an old laptop without wifi and wireless to type. It also must not be connected to power mains. It should run on battery. You must not type but use external drawing pad. The software will transfer writings to letters. When everything is done copy the text to a flash stick. In order to send the text to the destination place get your hands on a stolen smartphone with a stolen sim card but don’t switch it on and don’t go to your home with it!!! Wait for the night to come, go to the place far away from home at night when street cameras cannot see you well with hood on the head. Now you can switch on the smartphone. Find the free wifi point and send your text to the desired site. You do not need to use tor. You can use any proxy and tor of course but it enhazard you - the less you keep that smart phone ON the better. Also installation of orbot or other pseudoanonymous, IMHO, crap won’t protect you. So after sending your text to the destination place, you must destroy the smartphone. But you must be in hurry because they already pursue you . Take the battery out and crash the smartphone quickly to pieces by a hammer. Now it’s time to leave the place as soon as possible but don’t run - it will make you more conspicuous. Of course you must deal with the smartphone wearing gloves.


#39

The truth about programing, Patrick, is that it was designed as a pyramid. Those who were in the very beginning of computer and internet technologies development are Masters of the Chair and all the rest are slaves who don’t know that they are slaves. I talked to an old programer who was in the beginning of the matter in question and he told that if he were my or your, Patrick, age, he would not be able to learn what he learnt at those times. You must understand the volume of knowledge is so large and the books and programing ways have changed so much that one person cannot learn it all and understand it all and thus produce any countermeasures. The winning gampling cards are in the hands of a small group of old programers in America… And of course they have their rich masters. Present-day young programmers may know some high-level languages but don’t understand what are system calls, how they work and all the basics. They are slaves executing minor orders…


#40